Trials of Mana (1995)

These intro sprites are so... ambiguous lol. Like I can't tell what each is supposed to be good at or what weapons they use :-p Luckily they're described in the follow up screen. Tho I can't seem to go back after seeing the actual class lol so now one is named KeviAA.

Interesting how there is such different gameplay and what needs to be done depending onw ho your main character is etc. Lots of replayability taht way. It would be nice to do this 2 player with my husband too.

Yesss absolutely beautiful fire animations and colors of the house. The music is pretty solid so far. Everything is very high-quality for SNES, tho I'm wondering if I will get through the whole game as I am nearing the end of 95 and PS1 etc etc. But it's very well-made. I can't believe they didn't localize it...

Early Game

I was gonna complain about the slow walking but then discovered the dash button. They have it all! Good signs so far! I just hope I click with the combat better than its predecessors.

I don't love the menu navigation but it's not bad, and it's pretty if a bit cluttered.

I lvoe the coziness Feel throughout the game so far, the way the lights shine from inside during nighttime, the frequent fire animations, yes yes yes. I love diagonal movement. etc etc. Lots ot praise so far. I can't screenshot the fire animations, but the coziness is evident here:

I'm very curious about the other characters' starting plot, like the Amazoness and the Cleric and the Magician.

Every screen is so ornate and beautiful.

Hmm I don't love how the combat changes your movement but I think I will get used to it. And not inl ove with the music out in the forest area

Yea I really like this so far. The combat is a bit wonky (I was so excited to see what looks like combos when I'm not actually hitting somethingbut suddenly I get super slow when actually making contact) and still relies on the whole walk away then attack then walk away then attack mechanic of the old ones, but it's flowing better and I need to delve into the manual to better understand it I think. Excited to explore this world and hopefully have my favorite of the Manas so far! (Nice this site has a nice explanation since there is no manual lol, at least in English that is). I've been needing a good new game besides Picross, so I'm excited ot have started this tonight!

I read that this game is hard (and I'm sure it will become so later), but it seems quite forgiving with the recovery options along the way in enemy-ridden areas and never too large of those areas. I haven't had to grind yet. But I wonder what the bosses will be like and if they will exacerbate my meh-ness about the combat

Nice QoL feature that you can push npcs out the way :-p

I like that this is complex in that there are days of week, times of day, different characters that change how things happen but I can also just play it and have fun. I have only had to vaguely reference a guide and even then that was just to make sure I haven't missed anything. And the days of the week etc haven't seemed to stop me from progressing the plotline which always annoys me when they added that feature in games (plus this ahs a nice Inn feature to decide what time you want it, many way later games handled this more poorly imo). And the way the characters change things makes me very curious about replaying. My only worry is if the combat can hold up for me cuz no way I would replay if I don't end up clicking more with the combat. Otherwise, the Look Feel Sound etc. is all spot-on to make that possible and have this grow as a Favorite. (And for the most part the combat has clicked, I like reaching across areas they are stuck around, but the direct combat is a bit meh and sluggish I hope as my agility grows I'll change my mind, or I can switch to Carlie I guess now that I have her. I don't like how there's a delay in starting the combat when you enter an area and see an enemy, I also don't like the delay for a treasure chest to spawn cuz I'm often rushing off)

Ok the difficulty is definitely rising here. But it's also the combat mechanics that are holding me back . Hmmm. Time to read a bit more in case I'm missing something but I guess it's the ol' Mana aspect of "charging up" /waiting between attacks in an awkward way. Time for some grinding.

Yeah eh the first boss... really brigns out the clunkiness and awkwardness of this combat system. The way things stop for special attacks, the way you aim awkwardly. (Ah, just read about hwo important it is to upgrade gear, and I haven't)

As much as I am not in love with the combat, I do giv e credit to its QoL faetures and ability to kind of just let the party do it for me now that I have a full party. It wasn't how I wanted to play, since it's an ARPG/action-adventure, but it will do. Since the Look, Sound, and Feel are good enough to warrant pushing through anyway.

First negative QoL thing I've noticedf so far is buying and equipping is a bit more of a chore than it needs to be. And the delay of the graphics loading as I scroll down the equipment slots is not a good vibe. Remidns me of the delay in much of the combat loading too. Sometimes extra graphics aren't what is needed when equipping, just show me the stats... or better yet let me equip from the store screen and quickly switch characters etc.

As much as I really really love the Feel of this game (I am in the Dwwarf Village and love the tune and love the Tomba-esque, FF-esque, Dragon Quest-esque, just so many-esques lol vibe), I just am not sure if I should push through a game that I don't love the combat of (and am most giving credit to that you can just let AI take care of it) plus the store/menu/equip situation (the delays and tedium in that is just unacceptable tbh). Even if I move on this deserves at least a 4 star and it really is excellent.

Overall I've just accepted that the battles I will jsut press A and allow AI to do its thing, except for boss battles. But I really don't get these boss battles. They take so many hits and theyir mechanics seem meaningless. The special attacks being unavoidable feels... super lame.

Welp that's it for me. The mole? boss is super lame. And apparently all the bosses will work like that. I think I can see how it's likable in that it's akin to a turn based RPG with special attacks being unavoidable, but this would bem uch more fun, especially as a two player game, if we could try to dodge the falling boulders etc. Or at least prepare/move out of the way by way of an animation signaling they are about to use their special attack etc. What it becomes is either just pressing A and using my Cleric to heal periodically, or trying to engage in some sort fo mechanic by attacking, stepping back adn waiting till I can attack again, then attacking, using charged attack when can, etc. But that just isn't a mechanic I enjoy or find interesting. I will add it to RPG Replay though because there is a lot about this I like. The boss battles, adn the combat system in general (tho the random encounters could've been managable, so it's really the boss battles), ruined it for me.

Look: 9/10 Absolutely gorgeous aesthetic and colors

Sound: 9/10 I hadn't tired of it even as I got frustrated with the meaningless-feeling combat.

Play: 7.5/10 I wanna give this an 8+ because the QoL features are excellent, the dash is excellent, the concepts are great. But the menus, the equipment/purchasing process, the boss battles, even the regularly combat that I resorted to a simple holding A after a while instead of engaging with it as an ARPG... I can't justify an 8+

Feel: 8/10

Attachment: 8/10

Overall: 8.3/10

Completion: Fighting Jewel Eater

Playtime: 3.5 hours

Finally, after a year and a half of badgering my partner to play, we finished this. We went with Riesz, Hawkeye, and Kevin. He played Riesz and I did Hawkeye, plus cast Kevin's spells.

This is for the original SNES version that was released on Switch.

This might get me in trouble, but I found this worse than Secret of Mana in every possible way except graphics.

1. Combat was agonizingly slow and tedious. You can't run around like in SD2, each battle is contained in one area, and they make you slow walk through the whole thing. Magic pauses the action even more, grinding everything to a halt, incredibly often. You can enter a new screen and immediately have to wait for an enemy to insta-cast a spell on your party, sit there through the whole animation, and then leave. There's no strategy to combat, you can't avoid attacks (well, unless you're just far from the enemy and not engaging them) or spells, so you just have to hope you're at a high enough level and have enough items and the right spells to take the beating and get through the next area. You're either sailing through or getting your tail beat, there's no engaging sweet spot. I guess if you deliberately chose three characters with no support options, like Duran, Kevin, and Hawkeye, and made them all dark-dark classes, you'd be making the game pretty hard on yourself and have to come up with some interesting strategies. But even then you can rely on items for all your healing.
2. The music is uninspired and derivative of SD2. Not in a Final Fantasy, inspired by past themes way - there are a few tracks I would say whose artistic intention is to reference a past Seiken Densetsu song, but largely, the score rehashes a lot from SD2 and not in a great way. Don't get me wrong, it's still all pretty decent, and there are a few standouts, but it doesn't reach the heights of its predecessor.
3. Story is threadbare and a bit all over the place. This might be because there are 6 characters, three pairs of which have unique paths and antagonists, or it took us more than a year to get through, but it just didn't tell a compelling story, or much of one at all.
4. Dungeons feel repetitive and tedious.
5. There's no sense of exploration. There aren't any treasures hidden anywhere, and coupled with the tedium of battle, every dungeon or field map becomes making a B-line to the boss or exit. Rinse, repeat.
6. Graphics are gorgeous. Sprite animation is quite good.
7. Ring menus remain tedious. The main menu and item menu are AGONIZING to maneuver through.
8. Class change and best gear items are entirely relegated to drops. An enemy may have a chance of dropping a seed, which may yield the item you want. This is a super dumb way to get your final power ups. I had all my best gear for everyone but Hawk's armor, and it took me around 30 additional gear seeds to finally get it. And in trying to do that, I'm gaining levels, making everything easier along the way. And I know, I could have skipped it, but I like completing stuff, and they still could have made getting these things part of a side quest or boss fight or something interesting. SD2 did this with (most of? all?) the final weapon orbs and armor and it was silly then, too, but at the very least, they were dropping the things directly and not a chance at gambling to get them. ...Was SD3 the first gacha!?

I suppose I mostly had fun. My boyfriend probably did not, but I enjoy gaming with him, so, it is what it is. :) Now on to the other two story lines in the remake!

Story (4/5) | Characters (3.5/5) | World (4.5/5) | Gameplay (5/5) | Visuals (4.5/5) | Music (4.5/5) = 85% overall score

I had previously played the fan translation briefly; however, this is my first time fully playing it and it was with the official localization. For my party I chose: Kevin, Hawkeye, and Charlotte.

The story of ToM is probably the most developed of the four original Mana I played and I enjoyed the way that it weaves a tale across multiple protagonists and antagonists. It really gives me an incentive to play the game again with a different party. Despite this, the characters themselves were pretty basic (however I did like their designs and animations, especially Kevin).

I loved the evolution of the gameplay to be much more reactive and the ability to customize your class and choose your skill level-ups was a ton of fun and makes me want to play the game again. The world itself was just as much fun to explore as SoM and, while it was pretty basic, the political machinations of the world going on behind the scenes made the game world feel much more alive.

Visually the game is a step up from Secret of Mana; however, I found that there wasn't the same variety of diverse environments to explore as in SoM. The music as well was superb and while it wasn't as good as SoM, it was still really enjoyable.

Time to Complete: 25 hours

Favorite Chill Theme: Another Winter

Favorite Action Theme: Damn Damn Drum

I don't think I will be able to beat this. I find it very confusing on where to go, I constantly get lost. When I try to follow a walk through it is a lot of up down left right kind of directions of where to go which gets confusing fast. Maybe I will get the remake on sale, I don't want to spend full price for it. People here on Grouvee are saying it's good... part of the problem is I got lost and tired of the bosses (I am sort of towards the end of the game where its just a bunch of bosses to find and fight) and so I put the game down. Well, now that I'm re-visiting the game I am so lost as to where to go next (I even had my walkthrough I printed) and the combat and everything.

If I have any hope of beating this it would be to unfortunately start over from the beginning again and just really try to be tenacious and stick with it to the end, which I think I was trying to do the first time.

Definitely one of the best RPG games I've ever played.

Ok, I'm editing this review, as I've just finished beating the game in an actual console.

The fear of being disappointed by playing SD3, a game that I really, really loved more than 20 years back, was there. The pacing of the story was good, bosses were kind of challenging, which may be related to the choice of my heroes. Yes, you can choose between 6 heroes with 4 final classes each, but there are definitely easier paths. I was kind of lucky with my choice: got a healer, but at the expense of an incredibly good fighter. This is related to the main issue I have with this game - the lack of information overall. You don't know how your characters will evolve, nor how to do the second class. This reminds me that, after doing some research to know how to do it, you have to go find a specific enemy that may or may not drop an item that may or may not transform into the one you need to evolve your character into the one you want. This may -and I did, actually- feel like excessive grinding, something that comes back later on, when trying to get the best gear the game can offer.

But, after everything settled, this game lived up to my nostalgia. And that is definitely something not many games can say.

Keeping on with my 5-star score, and I'm really glad about buying Collection of Mana.

There's three very good reasons this is one of the finest JRPGs ever. The first is the absolutely top notch visually and audibly, it has an incredible style, some of the finest SNES sprite-work ever made (off the top of my head it's only competition is Rockman & Forte and maybe Chrono Trigger), a killer soundtrack, and an astonishing amount of variety in locations, environments, and enemies (this is literally the largest SNES game measured by kilobytes); you'll have been to more unique locations when the game is 1/3 over than lesser JRPGs will do in their entire adventure. The second reason is the game's sense of adventure; the world feels big, the antagonist's mischief is clearly in the world, and all the little sub-plots relate back to the mainstory or explore something important about the world, rather than feeling like a series of one-shots. And third, and this is the real reason to play the game in current year when there's so many other options: multiplayer. To my knowledge the number of JRPGs that have this feature is pitifully small, and the few that existo lack many features and conveniences SD3 has (the Tales of Games for instance only allow the other player to exist during battles. He can't run around the world with you). With rom hacks the game supports 3 people, 2 players on a standard rom.

By today's standards, the game's combat and character development is shallow, you can make a party of 6 from 3 characters, assign each one of 2 classes, and than 2 further sub-classes, and slightly tweak their stat points. There's only a single, basic attack per character and your ability to avoid enemy attacks consists of only a slow back-peddle; this isn't Ys where a skilled player dances around the enemies never getting touched, although good foot-work will preserve plenty of hit points, as well being mindful of triggering spell-counters. There is however an impressive collection of spells and special abilities- all of which slow down the action by pausing while a spell animation plays (although if you don't elect to have Angela, the pure caster, in the party this is not much of a nusance. Never bring her to a co-op game, you'll annoy your friends with your spell spamming).

However this shallowness is largely made up for by the game being extremely well paced. You don't go through dozens of identical rooms, have intros/outros to every fight, micro-manage some tedious bloated menu/item horde (the plague of modern JRPGs). Even movement out of combat and transportation between land masses is very fast, taking you straight to whatever point of interest you want. You rarely feel like you need to grind, and when you do it's over fast (minus the optional grind to get the legendary equipment in the final dungeon). Past the game's lengthy intro, cutscenes never go on for so long you get bored nor are they so infrequent that it feels like there isn't a narrative to your adventure. Even our story is paced well with it being relativily free of filler, clear advancements in the characters goals happening regularly, and a gradual reveal of new characters and plot-twists with the story gradually turning from being about the character's own personal goal to them becoming the destined hero that saves the world.

There's a few rough points like buggy spells/items that don't have their full power (the only truely crippling one being that the luck stat gives almost no critical hit bonus at all, making it useless outside of avoiding a few trapped chests). And of course like all JRPGs it's incredibly easy due to the how your ability to heal the party only goes up and up as the game goes on.

But given that it is free of so many of the annoying parts of JRPGs, is arguably the best looking 2D one ever made, and has 3 player multiplayer, if you like JRPGs at all this is a must play.

Seiken Densetsu 3, for SNES

Rating: 9.0/10; Masterpiece Strongly recommended for any RPG fan

Seiken Densetsu 3 is a Japanese action RPG that was never released in America. It is heavily based on Secret of Mana, having similar enemies, combat, spells, interface, transportation etc, while improving some of the flaws of SoM. The biggest improvements come with combat, item management and interface; specifically the removal of Secret of Mana’s charge up combat system, an item storage, and an actual menu screen instead of SoM’s annoying menu wheel. The actual gameplay is similar to most traditional RPGs, except that combat takes place in real time as you freely move your selected character around the battlefield and press a button to attack, while the other 2 characters are AI controlled.

The game features a diverse cast of 6 characters, out of which you choose the main protagonist and 2 followers. On top of this, each character can class change twice with branching leading to 4 separate final classes. The sheer number of combinations between main, followers and classes leads to significant replayability. Scenes, dialogue and even the villains and areas visited change based on who is in the party. These characters are also the best aspect of the game, as there is enough character development for all (even the ones not in your party) to make them feel like people you get to know, with distinct personalities, values and motivations.

While the game is not as long as most RPGs, it is a wonderful experience that manages to do almost everything right and is up there with the great SNES RPGs such as Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6. The worst aspect of the game is the enemies that use hit-all special attacks that do very high damage. This can easily lead to game over if you don’t keep your health topped up, and the sheer amount of damage caused is so much higher than most enemies can do that you will not be expecting it.

Pro

• 6 different characters to choose from, with slightly different stories, scenes and interactions depending on which is the main, and which other 2 are used
• each character has a unique prologue
• the 3 characters not chosen still appear, and you get to learn a bit about their prologue stories and resolve the basic conflict
• good story and characters, including interactions and character development
• each character has branching class upgrades with multiple classes for each, each of which has different abilities and fairly good balance
• each character has unique playstyles and is fairly well balanced
• world map is well done, with a text box saying where you are (at least while flying), and flashing dots for your objectives
• item storage system where excess items are sent (rather than being destroyed like in Secret of Mana)
• combat is fun, featuring normal attacks that fill a meter, which allows performance of a special attack once full
• there are items that mimic most class abilities, so regardless of what classes you use you can do everything
• interesting puzzles which involve choosing the correct item, spell or spirit from your menu

Con

• there is no description of the classes in game, so it is extremely difficult to make any kind of informed choice without checking a guide
• no area map
• uses save points
• cost of staying at inns is so much higher than basic healing items that it is far more cost efficient to not stay at the inn (except at high levels or if you also need mana)
• item storage does not have item descriptions, and things in it cannot be sold without first being put into your combat inventory
• limit to how many different items can be in the radial wheel for use in combat. Makes it difficult to make use of the large number of single use items
• no way to buy more than 1 of an item at a time
• class changes involve a simple palette swap. I particularly dislike how hair color is changed as that is how I tell the character icons apart for who I am controlling
• friendly AI sometimes has trouble navigating (you can move your allies without switching to them, but it is not an ideal situation)
• some regular enemies have special attacks that can hit the entire party for over 50% hp each. They also don’t need to use normal attacks to fill up their meter first
• you cannot issue new spell casts or use item commands while another spell is being cast. This is particularly annoying when bosses chain cast multiple spells without giving you a chance to react. Unless you just happen to be using a heal at the same time as the spell cast, there is a good chance at least 1 character will die. One boss in particular frequently chain cast hit all spells that each did over 50% hp in damage; which is pretty much game over. One time he chain cast 3 of those spells in a row
• severe lack of environmental treasure. There is little point in exploring off the main route
• shapeshifter enemies at the end were cool, but underpowered because they do not use the special abilities of other enemies
• early on there are jump mushrooms that send you high into the air for no other reason than to view part of the world map. This is nonsensical and could have been replaced with an actual map
• being shot out of a cannon as a means of transportation is nonsensical
• AI control settings are poor. Setting to “attack nearest enemy” will not cause them to attack until the character you control presses attack. Sometimes, they will forget about attacking after casting a spell and stand around by the character you control.
• no AI control setting to avoid combat. For this reason I spent most of the game controlling the mage, otherwise she would take unnecessary damage for minimal effect

Seiken Densetsu 3, for SNES

Rating: 9.0/10; Masterpiece Strongly recommended for any RPG fan

Seiken Densetsu 3 is a Japanese action RPG that was never released in America. It is heavily based on Secret of Mana, having similar enemies, combat, spells, interface, transportation etc, while improving some of the flaws of SoM. The biggest improvements come with combat, item management and interface; specifically the removal of Secret of Mana’s charge up combat system, an item storage, and an actual menu screen instead of SoM’s annoying menu wheel. The actual gameplay is similar to most traditional RPGs, except that combat takes place in real time as you freely move your selected character around the battlefield and press a button to attack, while the other 2 characters are AI controlled.

The game features a diverse cast of 6 characters, out of which you choose the main protagonist and 2 followers. On top of this, each character can class change twice with branching leading to 4 separate final classes. The sheer number of combinations between main, followers and classes leads to significant replayability. Scenes, dialogue and even the villains and areas visited change based on who is in the party. These characters are also the best aspect of the game, as there is enough character development for all (even the ones not in your party) to make them feel like people you get to know, with distinct personalities, values and motivations.

While the game is not as long as most RPGs, it is a wonderful experience that manages to do almost everything right and is up there with the great SNES RPGs such as Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6. The worst aspect of the game is the enemies that use hit-all special attacks that do very high damage. This can easily lead to game over if you don’t keep your health topped up, and the sheer amount of damage caused is so much higher than most enemies can do that you will not be expecting it.

Pro

• 6 different characters to choose from, with slightly different stories, scenes and interactions depending on which is the main, and which other 2 are used
• each character has a unique prologue
• the 3 characters not chosen still appear, and you get to learn a bit about their prologue stories and resolve the basic conflict
• good story and characters, including interactions and character development
• each character has branching class upgrades with multiple classes for each, each of which has different abilities and fairly good balance
• each character has unique playstyles and is fairly well balanced
• world map is well done, with a text box saying where you are (at least while flying), and flashing dots for your objectives
• item storage system where excess items are sent (rather than being destroyed like in Secret of Mana)
• combat is fun, featuring normal attacks that fill a meter, which allows performance of a special attack once full
• there are items that mimic most class abilities, so regardless of what classes you use you can do everything
• interesting puzzles which involve choosing the correct item, spell or spirit from your menu

Con

• there is no description of the classes in game, so it is extremely difficult to make any kind of informed choice without checking a guide
• no area map
• uses save points
• cost of staying at inns is so much higher than basic healing items that it is far more cost efficient to not stay at the inn (except at high levels or if you also need mana)
• item storage does not have item descriptions, and things in it cannot be sold without first being put into your combat inventory
• limit to how many different items can be in the radial wheel for use in combat. Makes it difficult to make use of the large number of single use items
• no way to buy more than 1 of an item at a time
• class changes involve a simple palette swap. I particularly dislike how hair color is changed as that is how I tell the character icons apart for who I am controlling
• friendly AI sometimes has trouble navigating (you can move your allies without switching to them, but it is not an ideal situation)
• some regular enemies have special attacks that can hit the entire party for over 50% hp each. They also don’t need to use normal attacks to fill up their meter first
• you cannot issue new spell casts or use item commands while another spell is being cast. This is particularly annoying when bosses chain cast multiple spells without giving you a chance to react. Unless you just happen to be using a heal at the same time as the spell cast, there is a good chance at least 1 character will die. One boss in particular frequently chain cast hit all spells that each did over 50% hp in damage; which is pretty much game over. One time he chain cast 3 of those spells in a row
• severe lack of environmental treasure. There is little point in exploring off the main route
• shapeshifter enemies at the end were cool, but underpowered because they do not use the special abilities of other enemies
• early on there are jump mushrooms that send you high into the air for no other reason than to view part of the world map. This is nonsensical and could have been replaced with an actual map
• being shot out of a cannon as a means of transportation is nonsensical
• AI control settings are poor. Setting to “attack nearest enemy” will not cause them to attack until the character you control presses attack. Sometimes, they will forget about attacking after casting a spell and stand around by the character you control.
• no AI control setting to avoid combat. For this reason I spent most of the game controlling the mage, otherwise she would take unnecessary damage for minimal effect

Wish I could give it a 2,5/5 stars. Beautiful graphics, very unique soundtrack, but half of the game is just boring dungeon crawling and very little story telling. Bossfights are very simple: Attack constantly, use that one right magic and wait until the boss is dead. No chance to evade their attacks, it's pretty much just work.

Still, it's something a Secret of Mana fan should have tried, but nowadays you find better co-op experiences.

In the end I will prefer playing Secret of Mana instead of this, since the game mechanics were more motivating.